how do you defend this type of attack?
chance of survival???
2011年6月23日 星期四
Knife fighting lies
is in the martial arts. There is no such thing in the modern
civilized world. In legal terms it is attempted murder,
assault with a deadly weapon or homicide. To the streetfighter
it is assassination, not a "fight" at all. To the criminal it is a tool
for robbery Everyone else considers it abhorrent macho stupidity.
MM
On this page:
Lie #1You're going to have time to draw your own weapon | Lie #2 It's going to be a knife "fight" | Lie #3 But what if I'm cornered?" | Lie #4 He's going to attack you a specific way | Lie# 5 And then he is going to passively stand there while you carve him | Lie #6 Trapping and stripping | Lie #7 Bio-mechanical cutting | Lie #8 Knowing how to stickfight means you know how to knife fight | Lie #9 Knowing kali makes you a knife fighter | Lie #10 Grappling with a knife | Lie #11 The knife is an extension of your hand | Lie #12 There is such a thing as a "master knife fighter" | Lie #13 That this is a "fight" at all | Lie #14 Expect to get cut | Lie #15 The FMA are the ultimate knife fighting systems | Lie #16 It's easy to disarm an armed opponent | Lie #17 You can successfully fight an armed attacker | Lie #18 Drills teach you how to knife fight | Lie #19 You can use a knife on another human being without legal repercussions
There are many so-called "experts" who claim to be able to teach you either knife fighting or defense against a knife. The problem is that most of them are just teaching regurgitated martial arts, usually from the Philippines. While I have lots of respect for the martial arts of other lands, the truth is that you live where you do. Odds are you are not in a "knife culture." And that means that whatever you do regarding knives must:
A) Work to keep you alive against how you are likely to be attacked by a knife in your homeland
and
B) If it does work, not put you in prison for murder or manslaughter
While B is important, it only becomes an issue if you survive A. Unfortunately, based on a lot of what I have been seeing taught with my own eyes or encountered while working with the students of these self-proclaimed "knife experts" getting past A is going to be a whole lot tougher than you think. Quite simply, most knife assaults are assassination attempts...how they occur is significantly different than how one "knife fights." While I express my opinions on other knife instructors elsewhere, what this page is for is to help you avoid some of the more common pitfalls with what is being taught out there.
Oh yeah, one more thing, always remember...it's your ass on the line out there, so don't let *anybody* tell you that you don't have the right to ask about these things or think for yourself.
Lie #1 You're going to have time to draw your own weapon
In all the times I have been assaulted with knives, only once was I able to pull my own weapon. And I didn't carry a folder, I carried a sheath knife that I had repeatedly practiced speed drawing. I could, in a crisis, draw and deploy a knife in just over one second. This is not idle boasting, I demonstrate it in many of my videos. And yet, despite this incredible rate of speed, when attacked I didn't have time to draw my knife except for the one time that I leaped wildly backwards to gain space.
That's because by the time I realized there was a knife involved, I was already being attacked.
Not long ago I was involved in a discussion about a young biker who had been blown off his barstool by a shotgun blast. What had disturbed me is that he had been involved in an altercation in the bar earlier and had not withdrawn, thereby signing his death warrant. However, an Australian bouncer rightfully commented that the ages between 18 and 24 is where these kinds of lifesaving lessons tend to be learned -- and those who don't learn them, or aren't lucky, never get any older. It is only the young and inexperienced who make certain kinds of mistakes.
Most knife "fighting" training is predicated on the assumption that you have somehow managed to get a blade in your hand. Quite honestly, if you you are attacked by either a young punk, a total incompetent or someone who was brandishing the knife in order to get you to back off then there is a chance that you might have time to draw you own weapon.
However, if you are dealing with anyone with any experience, street savvy or cunning, you will not be able to draw your own blade when you are attacked. Against such a person, there is just not enough time. He won't show his weapon before he attacks. That's because those who are foolish enough to brandish weapons in places where weapons are common don't live long themselves.
And yet that is exactly what you are expecting him to do so you can draw your own knife and defeat him.
Lie #2 It's going to be a knife "fight"
Shortly before his death, I was sitting at the NRA convention in Phoenix with Col. Rex Applegate, the father of American military knife work. We were discussing the fad of "knife fighting" that we, as old timers in the subject, were both amused and bemused with. He summed up the problem with what was being promoted as knife work as "They're teaching dueling." By this he meant standing there toe-to-toe, with the same weapons and trying to kill each other like civilized gentlemen.
Not to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the reason someone uses a weapon on another human being is to stack the deck in their favor. People don't use weapons to fight, they use weapons to win. The absolute last thing any attacker wants to do is to fight you with equal weapons. If he was looking for a fight he wouldn't have attacked you with a weapon in the first place. And if he knows you have a knife, he is going to attack you with a bigger and better weapon to keep you from winning.
Personally one of the things that I really respect the Dog Brothers for doing is experimenting with mismatched weapon contests. *That* is a reality. You pull a knife and he gets a club. You pull a club and he pulls a gun. There is no fighting involved, you use the superior weapon to disable your opponent. And you do it before he does it to you.
As far as your attacker is concerned this is not a fight, it is an assassination. He is not going to want to stand there with you and hack it out. Unfortunately, this is exactly the fantasy that many so-called knife fighting instructors promote. The absolute last thing you want to do is to try to "fight."
Another reason that you need to chase the idea of "knife fighting" out of your head is that in many states there is this attitude that "consensual fights" are best resolved by throwing both of the morons who participated in jail. It is true, you have the right to defend yourself against attack, but if you decide tofight someone, it isn't self-defense anymore, and if you use a lethal weapon on someone in a "knife fight" that you could have avoided, then you have yourself a gang of problems ahead of you. That is unless you like being gang raped in a prison shower.
Lie #3 "But what if I'm cornered?"
Common sense tells us that knife fighting is dangerous. And yet, like a dog circling a bear's den -- where a smarter part of it knows not to wake that sleeping bear, yet another, more instinctive part is urging it on -- many people who train in knife fight have the same torn desires. One of the biggest issues goading these people is Do they have what it takes?".
Unlike dogs, however, human beings have the ability for self-deception and rationalization. And one of the ways that we human fool ourselves is that we fantasize about situations where we would be able to give ourselves permission to find out if we "have it." Such people strongly resist the idea that knife fighting is a bad place to go. It is literally as though they are seeking to find an excuse.
One of the strongest indicator of this fantasy mindset is the reaction when they are told to flee instead of fighting with a knife, literally the next words out of their mouths will be "But what if I am cornered and can't run?" There are many such similar excuses that they can use and they all start with the word but: "but what if I am with old people or children and can't run?", "But what if I am out of shape (or infirm) and can't run?" In all cases, of the millions of possible options available they always seem to focus on the one that requires them to engage in a knife fight.
The truth is, it is incredibly difficult to "corner" someone who is determined to leave. Basically because he will use your face as traction or squirt through the smallest of holes. However, if the person's desire not to engage in physical violence is stronger than his desire to leave, it is very easy to corner someone. If you ask any experienced LEO, corrections officer or mental ward orderly which they would rather face, a person who wants to fight them, or someone who will climb over them to escape, to a man they will tell you the former. They know the latter will hurt them more and be harder to defeat. That's because that person is fully committed to a course of action. Whereas a person who has allowed themselves to be "cornered" will still be of a divided heart and therefore not able to fight at full capacity. And that is exactly what it will take in order to survive such a "no win" situation that they have put themselves into.
That is the true danger of this kind of thinking. Because part of you does want to know if you have what it takes and "can do it," you can unconsciously trick yourself into not taking appropriate precautions and ignoring danger signals. Your pride and ego will blind you about what you are doing until it is too late. Once there however, your life -- if it continues past that moment -- will beutterly destroyed.
Don't fantasize about being in a situation where you have to use your knife fighting skills, because you can end up tricking yourself into just such a situation by blinding yourself to possible escape routes.
Lie #4 He's going to attack you a certain way
I have a demonstration that I do during knife seminars. I find the highest ranking Filipino martial arts player present and I tell him to check and pass my attack. I then proceed to do a well balanced, fast, cautious attack. This is a legitimate and fast attack, and they tend to block it. I then tell them to block the another attack - and aiming for the same target - I do a prison yard rush on them. To this day I have gutted everyone of them.
The reason? They are entirely different knife attacks.
Many years ago Don Pentacost wrote a book called Put 'em down, take 'em out: Knife fighting from Folsom Prison. In it Don pointed out how actual knife homicides occurred in maximum security prisons. Putting it mildly, he outraged countless martial artists by what he said in that book, who to this day still disparage the book. Except for one thing, that prison yard rush is exactly what I use to gut so many of them. It is not a sophisticated attack, but it is a very common way to attack someone with a knife in the USA.
The FMA are predicated on one basic assumption, that you will be fighting a trained knifer. The problem with that assumption is that not everyone attacks the way that someone trained in the FMA will attack you. This is problematic because the counters of the FMA are designed to work against how people with FMA training will attack you. Against these kinds of attacks, the counters work great.
The bottom line is, in the Western culture, someone who is attacking you with a knife is attempting to murder you. They are not going to be hanging back cautiously in fear of your weapon and your fighting skill. Instead they will usually attempt to overwhelm you and quickly kill you by whatever means necessary. Such an attack is totally different than the well balanced and liquid attacks of the FMA. And that is totally different than how someone from Italy will attack you with a knife. And that is different than how someone from Venezuela is going to attack with a knife. And that is different than how someone from Brazil will attack you with a knife. And that is different than how someone from South Africa is going to attack you with a knife. And that is totally different than how someone from China will attack you with a knife. I know because I have traveled around the world and encountered knife fighting systems from all of those places.
I know that those who are selling knife fighting training and others who haven't seen these other systems will deny it, but: Just because you know how to handle one, doesn't mean you know how to handle the others. Each are different, and each are equally lethal. And those differences CAN kill you.
Lie# 5 And then he is going to passively stand there while you carve him
Just like in the magazines and in the training drills.
What few people realize is that a wild defensive flailing while holding a knife, is just as dangerous and damaging as an intentional strike. In fact, it is often more dangerous because of its unpredictable nature. If you are indeed tearing someone up, his defensive moves can hurt you badly -- especially if he is flailing around trying to stop your next attack.
I have seen a serious over emphasis on defense before closing and a serious lack of emphasis after closing -- either one will get you mauled, if not killed.
BTW, this is over and above the fact that he might not be willing to let you carve him and he might do something different after his initial attack fails...like attack again in a different manner. Or if his first one did succeed to attack again.
Fights are never static...and his ability to move is his ability to hurt you...and do it before you have a chance to do your really cool moves.
Lie #6 Trapping and stripping
Defanging the snake is something that is commonly taught at higher levels. Subtle and complex moves are drilled into the advanced students so they can either knock the knife out of their attacker's hands or carve the knife out of his hand.
There's just one problem with it, you have a snowball's chance in hell of making it work. The truth is these are what we call "green moves." They have very little to do with actual knife defense and very much to do with keeping the student involved in the system and paying money (which in the U.S. is green, ergo the term green move). Such moves rely on the attacker moving "just so" and thereby putting you in the perfect position to do the move.
The thing is even the older masters tell you that these moves are purely opportunity and chance. And yet, these moves are often over-emphasized at the expense of more effective altercation ending moves. In short, they train in elements as though they were the most important element or the highest degree of the art. Call me silly, but I feel that getting out alive is the best proof of skill, not how many subtle and complex moves you know.
In truth, unless an attacker is drunk or pathetically slow the odds of successfully catching his hand and doing all these marvelous joint locks or controlling moves are very, very slim. Furthermore you are not going to be able to effectively control a wildly struggling opponent's arm with only one hand. Odds are that he will be able to wiggle free of it and cause you some degree of damage.
This does, however, bring up an issue that I made a passing reference to previously. I often see too much of an emphasis placed on controlling your opponent so you can safely close. The raw reality is that you cannot effectively control someone out at such a distance. While there are things that you can do that will give you momentary advantage, it is nowhere complete control. Unfortunately, I have seen too many people try to establish control so they can enter safely. It has been my experience, that you cannot do this. What you can do is create an opening, enter and then prevent him from countering. But if you attempt to hang back until it is "safe" to enter, then you will take more damage staying back trying to create the perfect solution.
On top of the already unpleasant realities, there is something else that is far more important. Okay, so it's only important if you *don't* like taking showers with lots of guys with tattoos. Once you disarm an opponent whether by leverage or your own blade, if you continue to use the knife on him, that isn'tself-defense anymore. At the very least it is attempted murder, probably manslaughter and -- if your lawyer isn't very good -- you can possibly go down for murder if the DA is having a particularly bad hair day.
Lie #7 Bio-mechanical cutting
Technically this should not be on this page at all: First because I respect Bram Frank, and secondly -- as far as it goes -- it is a sound concept. The simple fact is that cutting tendons, muscles and nerves does work. A slash will destroy/hinder motor abilities. There is no argument about it's effectiveness.
However, like Jeff Cooper's well-thought out and considered "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" was bastardized by Bubbas and "gun nuts" into a clich?of ignorance of the legal issues, I have seen this idea seriously misinterpreted and bandied about by those ignorant of the laws, precedents and legal nuances regarding use of lethal force. Much of the discussion about using a knife to inflict this kind of wound is the same fantasy thinking as when a toothless redneck, after being called upon his statement of "ah'd jes shoot 'im," responds with the Cooperism. Neither of them are taking into account that the law has a slightly different outlook about their use of a lethal force weapon on another human being.
In the eyes of the law, a knife is a deadly weapon. It's use on another human is classified as lethal force. And the only time you are justified in using lethal force -- in most states -- is when you are "in immediate threat of death or grievous bodily injury." In otherwords, if it is bad enough where you have to use a knife on someone, it is bad enough to kill them. If you are at a point where you are just trying to wound someone, you are not in enough danger to justify using a knife.
This is the ghost of the old "shooting him in the leg" misconception so many people had. People would shoot an intruder and then tell the police that they were only trying to wound him. This left them open to all kinds of criminal charges and civil litigation -- from the person they had shot. There is a natural hesitation to take another human life. However, when this manifests in seeking to "wound" someone in order to make them "go away" you end up in a very dangerous legal grey area. And the fact that you were even in a situation where a knife was used is going to make that grey area more dangerous. Remember, a knife is considered a thug's weapon.
Lie #8 Knowing how to stickfight means you know how to knife fight
I have a friend Randy Brannan who is a physicist. The man is basically brilliant and when he starts talking physics, I shut up, sit down and listen, because he knows what he is talking about. Thing is Randy and I used to fight with broadswords at the California Renaissance Faire. These live-steel bouts were not only unchoreographed, but were basically wild brawls (it helps to understand that at the time, we were both young and often slightly drunk -- conditions known to produce "it seemed like a good idea at the time" thinking). Later Randy would go out and study Kali/Escrima. Having experience using a far wider range of weapons than many of his fellow kali students gave him a slightly different perspective. One day while discussing this very subject he said:
People claim that a stick is an average weapon. That it has similarities to all weapons. This is true, it does. But then they claim that if you know how to use a stick you can use all weapons. This is not true. What they don't understand is that the differences are just as important as the similarities.
Give that man a cigar...although I might tweak his last sentence to read "what they don't want to understand." Just because you are proficient with one type of tool doesn't automatically mean you can translate that skill to another weapon. And yet a great many people tell themselves that this is the case, in fact, they rather emphatically insist is it so. Apparently the appeal of being a "master of all weapons" is greater than being proficient with just a stick.
The simple truth is that different weapons handle differently. The have different weights, different sizes, different timing, different requirements and different uses. There are indeed certain similarities, but unless you want to end up kneeling in a dark parking lot trying to hold your guts in, you had better stop telling yourself about the similarities and start looking at the differences.
To begin with a stick doesn't have an edge. With blade work the point and the edge are critical components, but not necessarily so with sticks. Edge control is pretty much the indicator between someone who knows how to use a knife and a stick jock trying to tell you that he knows knife work. If you know what to look for you can spot the difference with just one move -- even if it is a fast one. In fact, the faster the move, the more obvious it is.
The physics of a stick do not require this exactness of edge control. This is because a stick is an impact weapon, were as a blade is designed to cut, slice, stab and sometimes, hack. If you do not have your edge on target, then you create a totally different set of physics and reactions other than the one you want.
If you are learning stick fighting then accept that you are learning stick fighting, that is a legitimate pursuit. If you are learning knife work, then you are learning knife work...while there are similarities there are radical differences. Don't tell yourself or allow yourself to be told different. If you don't believe me, try working out with a wide variety of weapons and do the exact same move. These differences especially become manifest when your weapon encounters flesh.
Lie # 9 Knowing kali makes you a knife fighter
Kali, Escrima, Arnis, FMA, all of them have the aura and mystery of being weapons based arts. Deadly, savage arts of the Filipino warriors. Lurid stories about guerrilla actions against Japanese invaders, duels and death matches that the founder of the style was involved in abound.
Quite honestly what these maestros survived is incredible and is more than worthy of kudos. These older gentlemen survived a totally different culture, socio-economic environment, time and, in some cases, a World War and foreign invasion of their homeland.
That having been said however, just because the founder of the system or lineage was a walking piece of bad-assed real-estate doesn't make you one.
They weren't knife fighters, those people were survivors. It's what comes from living a hellishly hard life. While they had physical skill that helped them, what kept them alive, what allowed them to strike fast enough, hard enough and brutally enough wasn't their art -- it was the commitment not to die. It was that grim savagery to do whatever is necessary and to do it faster and harder than the other person that kept them alive. In the lexicon, they had "heart."
Their art just allowed them to do that faster.
Knowing an art doesn't give you that kind of commitment, that kind of ruthlessness, that kind of grim endurance or that willingness to descend into savagery to stay alive. Just knowing the art doesn't make you a knife fighter. You have to have "heart" as well -- that willingness to wade through hell and come out the other side.
Lie #10 Grappling with a knife
I was in Germany with a group of martial artists teaching "street knife work." While demonstrating an empty-handed with one of them, he tackled me and took me to the ground (This is no big deal as when I do demo's I don't allow "courtesy attacks." I insist people attack me like they would were it a real fight -- this occasionally means that I get slugged or taken down. This was one of those times). Anyway, when we hit the floor I realized that there was no way I could contest this guys strength, he was a bull, full of muscle and grappling skill. The thing was I had landed next to a practice knife that I calmly picked up and dragged it across his throat.
We stood up and his eyes were the size of saucers because he realized what the significance of what had just happened. A knife had come out of nowhere and had this been real, he would have been dead. The amazing thing was is there were only a few other people there who did too. On of the bigger proponents of grappling stood there and said, "He tackled you." To which I replied, "Yes, and I slit his throat" "But, he tackled you."
In their minds there was no difference in the levels of damage. The fact that I had been taken down counted the same as a knife across the throat. Personally, I'll take getting slammed to the ground any day over getting my throat slit.
The myth of grappling is that it works everywhere. The fact that it proved so successful in the UFC ring has blinded many people to the fact that there are critical differences between fighting barehanded and fighting with weapons. While empty-hand fighting might easily turn into an endurance marathon, where size, strength, physical shape and ability to endure punishment significantly influence the outcome of an altercation, that is not applicable to weapons work. In that arena, every man bleeds the same.
Oh yeah, remember how I said bio-mechanical cutting did have validity to it about the damage a knife can cause? What makes you think you can keep on fighting with that kind of damage being done to you? All a guy has to do is cut you a few times to seriously reduce your ability to move and then wait while you bleed out. Now the really bad news, being pumped up on adrenalin is going to make that happen faster, the higher your heart rate, the faster you bleed out and lose strength. All he has to do is out wait for your strength to fail before finishing the job.
Do not attempt to "grapple" with a knifer. Once on the ground, you are not guaranteed to be able to control his knife arm well enough to prevent him from carving you up. If it were a barehanded fight, then you can often prevent him from being able to generate enough power to effectively strike you, but a knife doesn't need power, it just needs to touch you. And if you are attempting to control his arm while on the ground, he will wiggle free and repeatedly cut you until you can no longer continue to resist.
Now for the fun news, I know of a small knife being manufactured that is called the "clinch pick." A small concealable -- and easily accessible -- knife, that can be rammed into a grappler's guts and chest three or four times before the grappler knows it is there. Where it is carried makes it nearly impossible for the grappler to prevent its deployment. When you realize he has it, it is too late.
Lie #11 The knife is an extension of your hand
This lie is most often promoted by empty-handed stylists who insist that they can teach you how to either defend yourself against a knife or to use one. Unfortunately, many people who started out in such systems have transferred over to supposed blade arts and continued promoting this often misinterpreted saying.
Empty hand fighting is not the same as weapon fighting -- it requires different body mechanics, different ranges , different timing and -- most importantly -- an emphasis on movement that is not found in most kicking and punching arts. At least not in how they are taught in Westernized countries.
This emphasis on the hand largely stems from the sports influence of modern martial arts. However, the problem is that most empty handed fighters lack the understanding of how to generate force from a moving state, instead seeking to generate force from a stationary/rooted stance and a twisting the hips. While this works for barehanded fighting styles, it fails to address the needs of weapons fighting.
It is my personal belief that the idea that the "knife is an extension of your hand" encourages a lack of bodily movement, instead relying on the hand to do all your work for you. In these circumstances your not being cut relies on you speed and reflexes, rather than more reliable means. Basically, because you might not be fast enough to counter, parry or block what he is doing. I further believe that this lack of motion largely stems from attempting to extend -- whether unconsciously or intentionally -- the thought process of empty handed fighting into a field where it does not belong, or work.
For reasons beyond the scope of this Web page I prefer the more encompassing and flexible term: The knife is an extension of your will.
What I will say is that if it is an extension of my hand, my body may or may not move. However, if it is instead my will, everything in between my will and my knife will be likely to move to achieve my ends. And that is far more effective for staying alive.
Lie #12 There is such a thing as a master knife fighter
Despite all the fantasy self-defense scenarios so-called "knife experts" concoct in their minds and are always talking about -- where they would be justified in using a knife on another human being -- the flat-out truth is that in 99.9% of the times that a knife is used on another human being it is a criminal act. Not to burst anybody's bubble here, but those famous challenges and death matches that the old maestros engaged in were wildly illegal -- both in the United States AND in the Philippines.
Now having said that I will be the first to point out that hot-headed, young bucks looking to prove themselves will often engage in extremely stupid, dangerous and criminal behavior in the name of pride or anger. But you know what? If they live, they often wind up in jail, if not prison. The law tends to frown on fights, much less duels.
Something Brian Curl, the cameraman on my knife videos and ex-SEAL said to me that I will always remember is "There ain't no such thing as a professional knife fighter." Truer words were never spoken. Nobody gets paid for knife fighting. On top of this, you don't survive multiple knife fights without getting carved up pretty badly yourself. But most importantly, long before you stacked up enough murders to be qualified as a "master knife fighter" you would have found yourself on death row.
So look long and hard at anyone calling themselves a blademaster, knife fighter or knife fighting expert...because more likely than not, it is a self-imposed title that has no bearing on reality. And if he were such a master knife fighter, how come he ain't got more scars and isn't in prison?
Lie #13 That this is a "fight" at all
If you want to live, you don't go in with a "fighting attitude" to any altercation involving weapons.
Weapons take it out of the arena of fighting and put it in the realm of combat.
And if you aren't ready to go there, there is no shame in that. But don't let your pride or anger push you into there, because the rules are totally different, and if you don't know that, then you are the one who is going to get hurt.
If you see a weapon deployed, run. If you stay, don't even think of fighting. It left that three counties back...someone is going to get seriously hurt if you stay. Now the question is, will it be him or you? Or both?
Lie #14 Expect to get cut
Remember that thing called bio-mechanical cutting? I said the major problem with it is on the legal front, but, on the "a knife is going to do a shitload of damage to you" front there's a lot to be said for it. What amazes me is that some people can talk about the damage that their knife will do to an attacker, but at the same time blurt out the old clich?of "expect to get cut" as though getting cut were only a minor inconvenience.
HELLO! Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!
Where I really hit the roof on this mindset is when I see someone who comes from a empty hand fighting system attempt to "fight" an armed opponent in the same way that he would an unarmed opponent.
The thing is, these same people are the ones who often talk about "expecting to get cut." And then, having said that, they take no effective measures to prevent it from happening! I have literally seen such people wade into a cuisine-art.
Now who ever came up with that term originally was speaking about a very important idea. That is that you will be cut in a blade altercation and that you need not to panic when it happens and that you must continue on to the best of your abilities in order to increase your chances of survival. To that intent and meaning I say "Amen!" I couldn't agree more.
However, like the idea of biomechanical cutting has been bastardized by people into a dangerous misconception, so has this one. In fact, from having watched people who study so-called "blade arts" many of them have apparently taken it to mean allow yourself to be sliced up, making no effective defensive moves in order to try to get in one good hit. Apparently, if you nick him once to his twenty seven slashes, it is an acceptable exchange rate.
The other side of the pendulum swing is however, overly focusing on trying to control his knife arm before entering. Hanging back and trying to catch this fast moving blade so you can safely enter is one of the best ways I know to make getting cut a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This is what really results from trying to extend a "fighting mindset" into weapons combat. It simply just does not work. Would you like to hear our philosophy on this subject?
Trade a cut for a kill, but nothing else.
That's the difference between fighting and combat.
Lie #15 The FMA are the ultimate knife fighting systems
Let me lay it out on the line here. When it comes to knife fighting, they are all fucking dangerous.
There is no "sun source" of knife fighting. There is no land of ultimate knife fighting arts. There is no race who hold the monopoly on the "right way" to use a knife. As I said, I have traveled around the world and seen knife fighting systems from even more places and what I will tell you is that each of them will make you just as dead, just as quick.
What I will be the absolute first to admit is that the FMA have done wonders for organizing and explaining the ideas behind how they do what they do. And for that I take my hat off to them. And I salute and respect the skill and prowess of their eskrimadors, kali gurus and arnis masters. But I draw the line at even sitting quietly when someone tries to elevate one group of fighting skills above all others so they can swagger around saying that they study the ultimate "knife fighting" system. This above my immediate gag reflex when someone -- who has never faced a knife in the hands of someone who wishes him ill -- swaggers around and tells me that he knows everything there is to know about knife fighting because he studies under (fill in the blank).
There is no right way, one way or only way to use a knife...and the more you know about all the different ways the more likely you are to be able to come up with an effective counter if you are attacked in one of those ways. But if you have only studied one system, the odds are against you being able to come up with something that works. And I have to tell you, although Western practitioners like to claim that the FMAs do, those arts don't cover all the ways a knife can be used on you. There is literally a world full of differences out there.
I have said it before and I will say it again: *Nobody* has a monopoly on the truth about knife fighting. The whole of the subject is just too big. Everybody has a slice of the pie. And learning what they have to say about it and how they do it where they are from is the best way for you to increase you chances of survival.
Lie #16 It's easy to disarm an armed opponent
Every time I hear someone say this, I cringe. Because A) they have just told me that they have never dealt with someone intent on trying to kill them. B) Odds are that they are a bully and braggart. And C) If they are teaching people this nonsense they are going to get someone killed.
In a very real sense, someone standing there brandishing a knife is not trying to kill you...he is trying to scare you away. Now I will admit that it is often easier to overwhelm such a person because he is not in attack mode, but it is never easy. Such people can be surprised and often they cannot react in time. However, someone who is genuinely intent on attacking you with a blade is *never* easy to disarm or overcome. And promoting this lie is literally begging to get someone killed - especially if they encounter a committed attacker.
The problem that I have encountered with bullies is that they are very selective on who chose to bully. I have seen individuals who have savaged weaker opponents -- as if by magic -- disappear when trouble starts with true hard-cases. These individuals may have taken blades away from intimidated kids, but somehow they never seem to be around to try it against someone who is an experienced and hardened streetrat or former convict.
So again, proving that the exact choice of words is important we are left with a small, but important modification of what is commonly taught and what needs to be said: The concepts behind disarming an armed opponent are simple, they are not, however, easy -- and neither is the actual disarm itself
Lie #17 You can successfully fight an armed attacker
This entire page has been dedicated to disproving this lie. The main reason it is a lie is that you cannot "fight" an armed opponent. You can survive against one and you might even be able to successfully put him down before he causes you any major damage...but, whatever you do, it must be fast, effective and brutal. If it isn't, then you will not stop him before he causes you major damage.
You cannot stand there and engage in a long, drawn out contest with an armed opponent. If you try to do so, you will lose. It is not a matter of if, but of when.
Simply stated, every the touches you with the knife he will cause serious damage. How can you hope to launch a long drawn out retaliation against him when every time he touches you he causes "biomechanical cutting" on you? You are going to bleed out and cease to function long before your strategy comes to fruition.
Lie #18 Drills teach you how to knife fight
Drills teach principles. They teach ideas. They are the map, not the territory.
Unfortunately, many people mistake the map for the territory. One of the most unrealistic tendencies that drills teach is they do not teach you proper ranging. The object of an attack is to stab/slash your partner. However, often in training you will see people standing back ranging their attack against their partner's stick or their training knife falling at least a foot short of their partner. Furthermore they are not attacking with the same commitment and force level that a real knife assault will occur with. Therefore the training drill, while important is missing several critical components.
Lie #19 You can use a knife on another human being without legal repercussions
I have seen videos by so-called "knife fighting masters" who actually show the fool encouraging his students to slash someone with a knife for trying to slug the student. I have also seen videos where after disarming their attackers with several slashes to the arm, these knife killers proceed to slash their -- no longer armed -- attacker to ribbons. I have stood in a convention hall and seen a martial artist doing a demo, leap back while slashing the weapon arm of his attacker, and then .. after "defanging the snake," he leap back into range and executed a disemboweling move on his ... now... unarmed former attacker. Later, when I asked him about if he understood that any student doing that move would be committing manslaughter instead of "self-defense" his eyes bugged out because he'd never considered how that move would be viewed in court. I have stood in my front room with attorneys and use of force experts and watched a tape on knife fighting where a supposed "expert," not only starts a bar fight, does a suicide move that would have gotten his throat slit and then kneels down and stabs a downed opponent -- in front of witnesses! Actions that everyone agreed would be prosecuted as murder.
As such, don't even get me started on the bozo's who insist their students cut a person multiple times because "one cut may not stop him." Unfortunately, this kind of training often goes awry when the attacker attempts to withdraw and the knife fighter keeps on slashing, even after the ex-attacker has turned his back on the knife fighter. Now, this once upon a time attacker has been slashed many times after he was disarmed and is slashed more on his back while attempting to retreat...guess who is going to go to prison for attempted murder?
A knife is considered a lethal force instrument...and the use of lethal force is *very* narrowly approved. If you use one another human being you had better damned well be firmly within those parameters...if not, then you are -- in the eyes of the law and society -- the bad guy.
Before you even think of picking up a knife for "self-defense" go out and take a course on Judicious Use of Lethal force. Do NOT take any knife fighting experts word on the subject, go to the source lawyers and expert witnesses on use of force.
the clinch pick
http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/shivworks.htm
The "Clinch Pick": Bad News 4 Grapplers...
2011年6月2日 星期四
the most assaultive and deadly doctrine i have ever seen! sweet!
this article is found in
http://sundangan.webs.com/sundangan.htm
TULUMANON
(Doctrines)
The following are the protocols or the Doctrine of Discipline and purposes of existence strickly practiced by the Sundangan practitioners:
1. Exist as a Filipino Visayan Native Knife Fighting Organization that deals in the reality of street and combat survival realism.
2. Exist to establish camaraderies, brotherhood and respect to all those who respect our existence.
3. Exist to maim those who will question the reputation of the Instructors, practitioners and members of the group.
4. Exist to preserve the Art and destroy those who will question its integrity.
5. Exist to overcome the danger of being cut or stabbed during the actual confrontation without fear and hesitancy.
6. Exist to prove superiority in the field of Knife Fighting Technology.
7. Exist to develop Fighters with the ability that can destroy the enemy without any recovery.
8. Exist to produce Tactical and Strategic Knifers to become Fighters.
9. Exist to spread the importance of the Filipino Culture, Customs and Tradition.
10. Exist to accelerate Survival Awareness, Mental Clarity and Health and life preservation.
11. Exist to introduce Correct Human Characterestic and Capability and not by Animals, Elements and Methology.
12. Exist to develop derivable weapons into lethal usable weapons.
13. Exist to eliminate the Adulteration, inclussion, and the so called combination in the purity of the FMA.
14. Exist to prove that the nature of warfare is weaponry not empty hand.
A NATIVE VISAYAN KNIFEFIGHTING
http://sundangan.webs.com/
"BEWARE!!!
There are Unscrupolous Mongrils who will try to approach FMA instructors and will offer bribe money to learn a specific FMA system but later use and promote it as there own style then make money out the Filipino precious cultural art!!!..These so called culprit, manufacturer, prostitute and adulterer should be cursed or should be put to death without any question!!!
The Pekiti-Tirsia Sundangan congragation stand to promote and propagate the purity of the FMA without any alteration, combination, and adulteration, we all denounce and condemned anyone who will try to attempt and steal the essence of our embraced culture!!!
Watch out for we will name a few soon !!!
i just want to include the website of Mandala Nonoy Garucho's website here!
there are tons of information that can be found here concerning the art and technique and history of pekiti tirsia kali system!
"BEWARE!!!
There are Unscrupolous Mongrils who will try to approach FMA instructors and will offer bribe money to learn a specific FMA system but later use and promote it as there own style then make money out the Filipino precious cultural art!!!..These so called culprit, manufacturer, prostitute and adulterer should be cursed or should be put to death without any question!!!
The Pekiti-Tirsia Sundangan congragation stand to promote and propagate the purity of the FMA without any alteration, combination, and adulteration, we all denounce and condemned anyone who will try to attempt and steal the essence of our embraced culture!!!
Watch out for we will name a few soon !!!
i wonder who are these people as mentioned???
2011年5月30日 星期一
in depth article re: PTK training in Phil Army
article is found in:
was the reply to the command “ATTACK!” given by Master Instructor Jasper DeOcampo, Chief Instructor of the Philippine Army Pekiti-Tirsia Close Quarters Combat (CQC) program. Jasper or “Jas” has been conducting this intensive six (6) week training and certification program for the Philippine Army since 2008, first at Philippine Army Headquarters in Fort Bonifacio and now permanently located at the First Scout Ranger Regimental Headquarters at Camp Tecson, San Miguel, Bulacan. The Philippine Army General Headquarters-G8 sponsors the program that includes soldiers from other Army units deployed across the country including Infantry, Special Forces, and the elite Light Reaction Battalion – the Philippines top Counter-Terrorist unit.
Force Recon Marines
The Pekiti-Tirsia Close Quarters Combat (CQC) program, instructed by Jas and Assistant Neil Adlaon, is a comprehensive program to train Entry Level Military Instructors in Pekiti-Tirsia CQC. Each day begins at 0500/5:00am with physical conditioning and ends at 1700/5:00pm at the conclusion of the afternoon training period. The training program develops proficiency in five principle (5) weapon categories:
Combat Bolo
Combat Knife
Combat Empty-Hands
Combat Bayonet
Tactical Firearms CQC
The program also teaches the use of field expedient weaponry with anything that can be found on the battlefield and concludes with tactical scenario training in both jungle and urban environments. All student soldiers are veterans that bring decades of combined combat experience to the course and frequently discuss incidents of close quarters combat and their use of tactics and techniques. The Philippine Army General Headquarters-G8 is now conducting after-action reviews of graduates of the Pekiti-Tirsia CQC course to document the use of these CQC skills and the effectiveness of training. All students, usually a team of two (2) soldiers from a particular unit, arrive at Camp Tecson with full combat gear and firearms and are then issued their training equipment which includes an aluminum training Ginunting, an indigenous sword of the central Philippines and the primary Pekiti-Tirsia system combat blade, aluminum training Knife, additional rattan training sticks and knives, and Pekiti-Tirsia gear bag and training uniform/t-shirts.
The formal course begins with an introduction to the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali system and its history as a martial art and as official combat doctrine of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). Master Instructor Jasper DeOcampo has been teaching Pekiti-Tirsia to the AFP since 1998 when he served as part of the Instructor Cadre of the first Instructor Certification Course for the Philippine Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance Battalion. This landmark six (6) month course was led by Magino’o Tim Waid, himself a former US Marine, under the command and direction of Major General (then Major) Natalio Ecarma. At the conclusion of this course the Commandant of the Philippine Marine Corps, then Major General Ponciano Millena, recognized Pekiti-Tirsia Kali as the official martial art of the Force Reconnaissance Battalion, and later in year 2000, as the official martial arts system of the Philippine Marine Corps. This was the first time in history that any Filipino Martial Art has been recognized as Official Warfighting Doctrine of the Armed Forces of the Philippines.
The success of this program conducted by Tim and Jas, and continued by the Marine Corps Force Recon Instructors led to an overwhelming demand to teach these skills to all branches of Philippine Special Operations Forces (SOF) and Philippine National Police (PNP) special operations units. These skills now have been masterfully demonstrated and instructed to US and other allied forces by Philippine Marines and Soldiers during joint training and operations and has firmly established their professional reputation as military Masters of the Blade.
In addition to the Philippine Army, Jasper, who is the longest serving active Pekiti-Tirsia Tactical Instructor in the Philippines, also conducts training for units of the Philippine National Police and other government agencies, and conducts annual special instructional periods during joint US and other ASEAN military exercises such as Vector Balance Piston and the Balikatan, the largest annual joint military exercise held in the Philippines.
The training day begins with Jas and Neil leading the class in physical training sessions and then continues with an intensive aerobic tactical footwork training session. Footwork is also trained every day at the beginning of the afternoon training block to shake off any drowsiness from lunch. The students then begin a lengthy power striking and conditioning program beginning with the training Ginunting for accuracy and precision, and then move to the rattan sticks to strike a special target, a more than two (2) foot wide airplane tire from a 747 aircraft. This training develops muscular stamina for continuous, effective, and penetrating striking power.
Training then moves back to the tactical use of the Ginunting against the entire range of weapons, including indigenous edged weapons, encountered by the AFP as they have historically engaged the enemy forces of the Philippine government, be they communist NPA rebels, the Moro MNLF and MILF separatists, or the Al Qaeda linked terrorists of the Abu Sayyaf. Soldiers in the Pekiti-Tirsia CQC course quickly realize that the Combat Bolo is the superior weapon for combat survival in the many tactical situations that are possible on the battlefield such as when firearms become inoperable or when forced to escape and evade the enemy.
Combat Knife training includes close quarters use of the knife against weapon disarming attacks, counter-grappling, and sentry neutralization. Students then learn that the same attacks with the Combat Knife directly transfer to empty-hand techniques, which end with a takedown and control of the enemy, as in a POW snatch, or the termination of the enemy with a neck break or strangle. The key attribute of the training course is the effective training methodology of the Pekiti-Tirsia system. The Pekiti-Tirsia Kali system accelerates the development of the soldier into a complete and effective fighting man that can use any weapon, including rifle and pistol, as an effective close quarters combat tool to engage and terminate any enemy combatant. The result is a keen and superior physical and psychological advantage for the Philippine Soldier over any enemy combatant ever to be encountered.
Earlier in year, Grand Tuhon Gaje and Master Instructor Tim Waid conducted special instructional periods for the course which included close-quarters use of the Combat Knife and Sentry Neutralization taught by Tuhon Gaje, and, advanced Tactical Firearms CQC taught by Tim Waid. Grand Tuhon Gaje lectured on the unique mental training of the warrior achieved through training in the Pekiti-Tirsia system and the historical application of the Filipino fighting arts throughout history. Grand Tuhon Gaje then taught the use of the knife in extreme close-quarters engagements and termination techniques.
As most Philippine Army and Marine units operate in remote jungle terrain, Tim emphasized the direct parallel between the strategy and execution of infantry/small unit combat tactics and edged-impact weaponry tactics. He explained and demonstrated that the critical skill of maneuvering and closing with the enemy are the same regardless if one is bounding as a team, using fire and movement as a individual team member, or striking and bridging through contact distance with an edged-impact weapon. Speed of movement (team assaulting or using individual angular footwork in close quarters), combined with accurate rifle fire and precise edged weapon striking are the keys to killing the enemy. Tim continued with instruction on the use of the rifle as an edged-impact weapon, with or without the Bayonet, close-quarter handgun employment, and retention and disarming techniques with both tactical firearms.
At the conclusion of the certification course, the graduates are qualified to return to their units and begin instructing other soldiers in the CQC tactics and techniques of the Pekiti-Tirsia system. Currently, Chief Instructors Jasper DeOcampo and Tim Waid are developing an advanced course curriculum for the Philippine Army to train and certify Master Instructors in the Pekiti-Tirsia CQC system.
Training methods and weapons of the Pekiti-Tirsia System
i am not sure about the legality of copy and paste these articles from the other website.
if i have violated in anyway in respect to the author of these articles, please inform me right away. and i shall remove them from my post.
this blog is meant for my personal study of the culture, technique, and philosophy of the pekiti tirsia kali system.
the following article is downloaded from:
Author: Uli Weidle
Manila, 31 July 2004
Manila, 31 July 2004
Round about the knife: Training methods and weapons of the Pekiti-Tirsia System
A central element of the Pekiti-Tirsia System is training with and against the knife. A purposeful knife training, as is practised by Pekiti-Tirsia, combines and develops all qualities needed by a skilful fighter: physical fitness, decision making power, determination, courage, self-confidence, understanding the necessity for and the ability to maintain "Situational Awareness" and a strategic-tactical approach.
Not only Pekiti-Tirsia recognised the importance of the knife; other Filipino Martial Arts systems and combat systems of other cultures recognised this too. For example Col. Rex Applegate considered a knife as the 'Confidence-Builder' – he recommended OSS agents to always carry a knife (or an insuspicious every day item, that if needed can be used like a knife).
Knife training is a crucial part of Pekiti-Tirsia. If ever it would be possible to reduce the Pekiti-Tirsia system to only one weapon category without loosing essence, then this one category must be the knife. Yet, knife training by itself is not complete. For optimal results it needs more then that...
Optimal training results using weapons that focus on specific training targets
To allow for that type of optimised training procedures to start as early as in basic training, the Pekiti-Tirsia system from the very beginning complements the variety of available body exercises with a complete set of specific and functional training devices:
The Five Weapon Categories of Pekiti-Tirsia Basic Training.
1) Solo Weapon: Sticks and Swords of various length and weight. Typical for basic training is the arms length "Kali-Stick" as Impact-Weapon or the same length filipino short sword (Edged Weapon). The Malayu Sibat (long pole, spear) too is an important part of this category.
2) Symmetric Double Weapon: Double Stick, Double Sword
3) Long– and short weapon: Sword and knife also known as Espada y Daga, Stick and knife
4) Body Weapons: Hands, Forearm, Elbow, Shoulder, Knee, Shin, Foot,... (for further reading, see our Article: Open Hands of Pekiti-Tirsia)
5) KnifePekiti-Tirsia uses sticks, swords and knifes of different length, weight and shape, so that the practitioner develops an intuitive understanding for variety of weapon and movement. This understanding of variety is as a general principle also applied for example for clothes. Tight clothes or heavy boots for example can drastically alter the dynamics of executing kicks.
Around the knife
If the five weapon categories are used as a complete system like in Pekiti-Tirsia, then they not only allow for, but almost guarantee that the methods and strategies of self-defence and close combat are trained and understood thoroughly, with true consideration of all meaningful variables relevant for success and survival.
"SPEAR and STPAP" or: What should be trained?
The Pekiti-Tirsia heir and keeper Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje collects the essential five physical qualities of a fighter with the Acronym "STPAP": Speed, Timing, Power, Accuracy (proper force, balance) and Precision.
"The SPEAR composed from spirit & heart transforms to STPAP" — that is an important result distilled from the timeless experience of generations of trainers. With the importance of physical and mental development well understood, Pekiti-Tirsia is a training system that works holistic with the complete human being, helping the practitioners to improve the desired physical skills harmonically supported by a personality matured in Spirit and Heart.
Complete & Accelerated, because »good« is not good enough!
A complete training system like the Pekiti-Tirsia system develops the practitioners in all crucial qualities; in technical skill and physical attributes same as in the quality of spirit and heart. Knife oriented training accelerates that process: Considering the special dynamics, danger and brutality of a knife fight, it is obvious that all essential qualities of a fighter are indeed required in a sharpness, as it is otherwise rarely known. In a confrontation with a knife, »good« is not good enough. Because of this a serious knife system like the Pekiti-Tirsia prepares the trainee as intensive and fast as possible in all qualities that are needed for a successful fighter. This is the deeper reason (more important as tradition or cultural reasons) why knife training is central in the Pekiti-Tirsia system: Knife training is the ideal learning accelerator.
Pekiti-Tirsia trainer not only know about the advantages of knife training but also about the pitfalls pure knife training can hold for a fighter. As is for example the among "technicians" (used in contrast to "practitioners") popular tendency to trust and rely on the sharpness of the blade. Influenced by eye catching commercially available knife videos, the technicians among the FMA and knife fighting community adopted in recent years the belief in the 'One-Cut Kill', that is often propagated with the hope in 'Instant-Shock'. A dangerous belief, that indeed, even more so than the belief in the 'One Punch Kill' as known from diverse budo arts, can be a deadly error.
Here is a crucial difference between a "Showman" (a technical impressive knife "artist") and a really highly effective knife fighter: The later is a practician, who uses the knife without any fantasies like a tool for success and survival. 
Knife Culture – Experience and Tradition
Since Pekiti-Tirsia has been and still is continuously tested in real close quarter combat situations (see for example our article "Pekiti-Tirsia and the Military") the danger resulting from the 'One-Cut Kill'–idea is well understood. Because of this, one of the most important lectures taught to a Pekiti-Tirsia beginner is for him to get aware of the difference between hurting, killing, stopping and surviving, and to really comprehend what that means. He experiences the life-appreciating knife culture of the old Filipino, which is in total contrast to the life destroying Fast-Food knife training, that is so often propagated in the context of sports competition. A "fair" reglemented duel fight maybe to the first blood in every regard is different from a serious be or not to be situation.
Only the proper combination of practice methods can make sure the proper balance of the result. Or in Grand Tuhons words: "The secret is not the technique, but how the technique is given to the student."
Specific effects of weapon training: The total is more then the sum of it's parts
Crucial for the synergism effect to kick in is, that the weapon categories are not trained as a random mixture or mere collection of techniques, but in a way, that re-uses equal or similar patterns of movement, power generating methods and action principles across all methods.
This multiple usage is not only practical for training, it is also a necessity for being able to handle real life situations. Because as a matter of fact the transition between impact (stick) and edged weapon are smooth. A stick might have sharp edges (the in-famous 4 by 4, the flat-stick) and a knife may be used with negligence of its cutting power as a blunt weapon (closed folder). When utilising a telescopic stick for example the length of the weapon might change during the actual fight. If training shall enable a fighter to handle the variety of possible real life situations, then the training should actually prepare him for that.
Here an overview about the weapon categories of the Pekiti-Tirsia core system and what qualities they primarily produce.
| • | single stick / single weapon: focus, power generation, distance control, timing. |
| • | symmetrical double weapon: symmetry, adaptability and spontaneity, courage, co-ordination and precision. |
| • | long– and short weapon (Espada y Daga): secondary Awareness, moving between and connecting distances, preparation. |
| • | knife: survivor attitude, explosivity, PFPS, tactical positioning in close range, awareness, respect. |
| • | body weapons: self-confidence, independence. |
This five weapon categories of Pekiti-Tirsia establish a compact and as well comprehensive practice system, that is holistic as described previously. With that the methods of Pekiti-Tirsia are chosen such, that the multiple usage and transfer of concepts, pattern of power generation and movement is easily possible. One method of training or weapon category supports and improves the other. They act as a system in harmonious union.
Beyond this core of the system there are further weapon categories, which can be taught independently as encapsulated modules or as supplements of the core system. These modules offer for example the possibility for the specialization in different kinds of swords, palm stick, long pole/spear (Sibat), telescope stick, shield, flexible weapons and modern weapons as for example handcuffs, spray weapons, pistols, electroshocker or practical combinations of long and short weapons, like e.g. light and knife, pepper spray and baton, handcuff and telescope stick...
The sophistication of the Pekiti-Tirsia core system shows in the fact, that a person who gained sufficient experience in the system, is in shortest time able to adapt to new situations and handle any of the weapons specified above with efficiency. An ability, with that Grand Tuhon already astonished many times.
The true value of the core system shows every time it can be observed, how persons, who train according to the Pekiti-Tirsia method, change and in the process of training not only develop the physical ability for self-protection, but also a positive attitude and in the consequence: confidence, initiative and self-assurance.
Conclusion
Author: Uli Weidle
Manila, 31 July 2004
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